Comments on: Indoor Navigation – The new gold rush? Part-1 http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/ Transforming LBS Location Based Information into Money - by Claudio Schapsis Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:02:05 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Amir Malik http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6157 Amir Malik Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:49:09 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-6157 We explored Bluetooth-based navigation and positioning for a senior design project at UC Santa Cruz. See http://urna.projects.unoc.net/ for details and a video demo. Although other RF technologies can provide better accuracy at lower power levels, it is the ubiquity of Bluetooth-enabled mobile devices that gives it huge potential due to the potential market size. Even the latest Bluetooth specs from the Bluetooth SIG are more friendly to low-power applications, so this might finally become a reality! I have a feeling the future of indoor positioning is going to be a hybrid solution consisting of Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Near-Field Communications (NFC) and/or RFID tags. :) - Amir We explored Bluetooth-based navigation and positioning for a senior design project at UC Santa Cruz. See http://urna.projects.unoc.net/ for details and a video demo. Although other RF technologies can provide better accuracy at lower power levels, it is the ubiquity of Bluetooth-enabled mobile devices that gives it huge potential due to the potential market size. Even the latest Bluetooth specs from the Bluetooth SIG are more friendly to low-power applications, so this might finally become a reality!

I have a feeling the future of indoor positioning is going to be a hybrid solution consisting of Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Near-Field Communications (NFC) and/or RFID tags. :)

- Amir

]]> By: Jon http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5359 Jon Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:38:31 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5359 My company, Point Inside, created a technology we call the Indoor Navigation Engine. Using INE, we are working with owners of large indoor locations to digitize their floor plans and cad drawings. We recently launched a beta version of our iPhone application which offers access to over 400 shopping centers across North America. Although the feature is not yet available on the iPhone, with INE we can generate indoor walking directions to / from any location including hybrid indoor-to-outdoor directions. Look for this feature to be available on the iPhone and Android phones very soon. We are aggressively expanding beyond shopping centers, working with owners and managers of other large indoor locations. Feel free to contact me via www.pointinside.com for more information Jon My company, Point Inside, created a technology we call the Indoor Navigation Engine. Using INE, we are working with owners of large indoor locations to digitize their floor plans and cad drawings. We recently launched a beta version of our iPhone application which offers access to over 400 shopping centers across North America.

Although the feature is not yet available on the iPhone, with INE we can generate indoor walking directions to / from any location including hybrid indoor-to-outdoor directions. Look for this feature to be available on the iPhone and Android phones very soon.

We are aggressively expanding beyond shopping centers, working with owners and managers of other large indoor locations.

Feel free to contact me via http://www.pointinside.com for more information

Jon

]]> By: Elona http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5255 Elona Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:03:12 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5255 Looks like a micro-market, but a may be a good one. Hard to tell if it will take off. If you've even been at the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul, you can understand why someone would want it in certain locations. :) Looks like a micro-market, but a may be a good one. Hard to tell if it will take off. If you’ve even been at the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul, you can understand why someone would want it in certain locations. :)

]]> By: Bill http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5235 Bill Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:40:40 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5235 Ho Hum … my company is performing a trial in the North of England implementing many of the ideas discussed here. The trial is to prove a new service to assist management of public areas; locate key staff , keep and eye on equipment, provide market research data, provide assistance for persons with impaired vision. Key staff (security, first aid, etc) locations and contact details displayed on facility maps, Medical equipment, cleaning trolleys, wheelchairs, etc again located on floor schematics but with automatic alert when removed and automatic inventory control. Shopper marketing data gathered and formed automatically into reports of customer numbers and behaviour. This includes number visiting each zone in each time period dwell time in each zone, etc (zones of various sizes, typically 20metres square). Persons with impaired vision can request reassurance messages at any location they require, say to receive an automatic voicemail message when outside Boots the chemist. Primarily we are using Bluetooth but in harness with other sensors, the trial site is a shopping complex with indoor and outdoor sections. www.eyedpro.cpm , please visit the website, we hope to have publicity material and so on available over the next weeks, you have caught us in the technical part of the trial so please bear with us. Ho Hum … my company is performing a trial in the North of England implementing many of the ideas discussed here.
The trial is to prove a new service to assist management of public areas; locate key staff , keep and eye on equipment, provide market research data, provide assistance for persons with impaired vision.
Key staff (security, first aid, etc) locations and contact details displayed on facility maps,
Medical equipment, cleaning trolleys, wheelchairs, etc again located on floor schematics but with automatic alert when removed and automatic inventory control.
Shopper marketing data gathered and formed automatically into reports of customer numbers and behaviour. This includes number visiting each zone in each time period dwell time in each zone, etc (zones of various sizes, typically 20metres square).
Persons with impaired vision can request reassurance messages at any location they require, say to receive an automatic voicemail message when outside Boots the chemist.
Primarily we are using Bluetooth but in harness with other sensors, the trial site is a shopping complex with indoor and outdoor sections.
http://www.eyedpro.cpm , please visit the website, we hope to have publicity material and so on available over the next weeks, you have caught us in the technical part of the trial so please bear with us.

]]> By: michael http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5220 michael Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:07:14 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5220 True, indoor nagigation is simply an extension of the 'outdoor' one that Google and Microsoft et al have already well established. So, problem is still the same about how to illustrate info thats useful and easy to read. Personally, I believe an inside to Google's Streetwise would cover this concept very effeciently - look at what they are doing with cyclists dragging cameras behind them (http://iguidez.com/blog/2009/07/07/a-googlist-googles-new-soldier/) Furthermore, relying on individual shopping malls to upload their own maps will probably not work either. Again, it needs somebody to go around and kick their ass into gear. For years we at iGuidez have been making video guides of museums etc and even with their full support and over-enthusiastic responses at the finished product they still can't get around to adding links to their homepages. So, the real end goal or profit will still only fall to those who are prepared to do the real dirty work at the end of the day. Automation or DIY jobs in this location based service industry is in my opinion the equivalent to being a taboo! True, indoor nagigation is simply an extension of the ‘outdoor’ one that Google and Microsoft et al have already well established. So, problem is still the same about how to illustrate info thats useful and easy to read. Personally, I believe an inside to Google’s Streetwise would cover this concept very effeciently – look at what they are doing with cyclists dragging cameras behind them (http://iguidez.com/blog/2009/07/07/a-googlist-googles-new-soldier/)
Furthermore, relying on individual shopping malls to upload their own maps will probably not work either. Again, it needs somebody to go around and kick their ass into gear. For years we at iGuidez have been making video guides of museums etc and even with their full support and over-enthusiastic responses at the finished product they still can’t get around to adding links to their homepages. So, the real end goal or profit will still only fall to those who are prepared to do the real dirty work at the end of the day. Automation or DIY jobs in this location based service industry is in my opinion the equivalent to being a taboo!

]]> By: mark ahles http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5217 mark ahles Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:50:57 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5217 How about having the location and routs to all of the thousands of portable defibrilators (AED's) available to people in malls, airports, high-rise buildings? That would save lives. Now take it a step further and have those locations available to 911 call centers who can instruct a caller where to find the nearest AED. How about having the location and routs to all of the thousands of portable defibrilators (AED’s) available to people in malls, airports, high-rise buildings? That would save lives. Now take it a step further and have those locations available to 911 call centers who can instruct a caller where to find the nearest AED.

]]> By: Jeremy Irish http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5216 Jeremy Irish Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:44:28 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5216 Since the tags know where they are already, there's no need to provide an ID of the tag, just have the tag broadcast its location. There are many solutions available today - there just isn't a broad adoption of a particular technology on the scale of GPS (or even WiFi positioning). Personally I believe hyperlocal content is the new gold rush, not the system for determining location, at least at a larger scale. Since the tags know where they are already, there’s no need to provide an ID of the tag, just have the tag broadcast its location. There are many solutions available today – there just isn’t a broad adoption of a particular technology on the scale of GPS (or even WiFi positioning).

Personally I believe hyperlocal content is the new gold rush, not the system for determining location, at least at a larger scale.

]]> By: Jose Ayub http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5213 Jose Ayub Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:46:18 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5213 I see that comming too. I am spezialised in sensor-networks using WLAN or Bluetooth. On this base you can easily implement location algorithms. You will have to deal with the short range of bluetooth sensors and how to power them, though. Nowadays you have 2D/3D maps or mothern buildings which could be used, without having to create them. I see that comming too.

I am spezialised in sensor-networks using WLAN or Bluetooth. On this base you can easily implement location algorithms. You will have to deal with the short range of bluetooth sensors and how to power them, though.

Nowadays you have 2D/3D maps or mothern buildings which could be used, without having to create them.

]]> By: Rob Manson http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5209 Rob Manson Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:43:41 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5209 Have you seen http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/ ? Have you seen http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/ ?

]]> By: ihoogland http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5200 ihoogland Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:25:00 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5200 re: Paul's comment..... There are plenty of "tracking" solutions already for pets/children/patients. I think the issue being discussed here is indoor "turn-by-turn navigation instructions", not tracking. re: Paul’s comment…..

There are plenty of “tracking” solutions already for pets/children/patients.
I think the issue being discussed here is indoor “turn-by-turn navigation instructions”, not tracking.

]]> By: ihoogland http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5199 ihoogland Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:21:18 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5199 Interesting concept, but for some reason it reminds me of "multi-modal transportation" content...if you build it, they will come, but who's building it? Are any malls/amusement parks planning to install the required sensors soon? If so, are any companies writing Aps to use the sensors? Any small-scale Alpha or Beta deployments anywhere yet? Interesting concept, but for some reason it reminds me of “multi-modal transportation” content…if you build it, they will come, but who’s building it?

Are any malls/amusement parks planning to install the required sensors soon? If so, are any companies writing Aps to use the sensors? Any small-scale Alpha or Beta deployments anywhere yet?

]]> By: Paul Moseley http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5197 Paul Moseley Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:47:49 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5197 I think you have missed a key element here. The ability to find a particular IPhone no matter where it is, inside or outside. Here are a few suggestions: 1. lost child reporting. I realize that small children may not have an IPhone, or do they? You could locate them in a mall or in the mall parking lot or ten miles away. 2. Dementia patients often roam away from Assisted Living Facilities and private homes. Yes, I can alarm the doors to try to stop them before they go out but what if a relative signed them out? Could also help the dementia patient locate thier room should they become confused. 3. Simple way to locate mall security people in an emergency. In house or in the parking lot. I am sure there are many more "i.e advertise a store while the customer is in front of the store in the mall". Technology is a wonderful thing when it uses you instead of you learning how to use it. I think you have missed a key element here. The ability to find a particular IPhone no matter where it is, inside or outside. Here are a few suggestions:

1. lost child reporting. I realize that small children may not have an IPhone, or do they? You could locate them in a mall or in the mall parking lot or ten miles away.
2. Dementia patients often roam away from Assisted Living Facilities and private homes. Yes, I can alarm the doors to try to stop them before they go out but what if a relative signed them out? Could also help the dementia patient locate thier room should they become confused.
3. Simple way to locate mall security people in an emergency. In house or in the parking lot.

I am sure there are many more “i.e advertise a store while the customer is in front of the store in the mall”.

Technology is a wonderful thing when it uses you instead of you learning how to use it.

]]> By: Jeff Liepins http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5195 Jeff Liepins Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:44:54 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5195 With the new advancements of bluetooth technology and the processing capabilities of today's Smartphones this is just the tip of the iceberg for "indoor navigation" or navigating within a tightly enclosed area in general. With the current applications which are already being developed by Iphone, Android and other smartphone users theres no telling where the world of mapping/GIS will be taken to in the near future. When I was in school I had a colleague who created a GIS on a hockey rink and showed how the technology could help out players/coaches and the game alike, and while watching TV a little while ago I saw a documentary on a rugby team which wore gps devices and every movement was tracked and from there the coaches analyzed the game and came up with new game plans for the team and coaching methods for individual players. These are just some small examples of where these technologies are being used today and how this might expand in the future. But also watch out for some major competitors for the iPhone in the near future and applications should be developed with compatibility for these products as well as some of these competitors are releasing some really powerful tools and applications along with their powerful new phones. Sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent there but I am full of excitement for these new technologies and can't wait to see what will be done next. Jeff With the new advancements of bluetooth technology and the processing capabilities of today’s Smartphones this is just the tip of the iceberg for “indoor navigation” or navigating within a tightly enclosed area in general. With the current applications which are already being developed by Iphone, Android and other smartphone users theres no telling where the world of mapping/GIS will be taken to in the near future. When I was in school I had a colleague who created a GIS on a hockey rink and showed how the technology could help out players/coaches and the game alike, and while watching TV a little while ago I saw a documentary on a rugby team which wore gps devices and every movement was tracked and from there the coaches analyzed the game and came up with new game plans for the team and coaching methods for individual players. These are just some small examples of where these technologies are being used today and how this might expand in the future. But also watch out for some major competitors for the iPhone in the near future and applications should be developed with compatibility for these products as well as some of these competitors are releasing some really powerful tools and applications along with their powerful new phones.

Sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent there but I am full of excitement for these new technologies and can’t wait to see what will be done next.

Jeff

]]> By: Krista Salas http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5191 Krista Salas Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:30:36 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5191 Wow! This was something that I have been thinking about for some time now. I worked with Magellan for 14 years and Tom Tom for two years so I have alot of experience with GPS and what it can and cannot do. This fall I attended CTIA and several of us were talking about this exact idea. I am seriously interested in this as I see huge potential here from both the consumer and the public (ie. emergency crews, etc) sectors. I am not an investor but would love to be involved with this project. Wow! This was something that I have been thinking about for some time now. I worked with Magellan for 14 years and Tom Tom for two years so I have alot of experience with GPS and what it can and cannot do. This fall I attended CTIA and several of us were talking about this exact idea. I am seriously interested in this as I see huge potential here from both the consumer and the public (ie. emergency crews, etc) sectors. I am not an investor but would love to be involved with this project.

]]> By: Jon http://bdnooz.com/2009/11/08/indoor-navigation-%e2%80%93-the-new-gold-rush-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-5189 Jon Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:42:11 +0000 http://bdnooz.com/?p=1873#comment-5189 I love your Sun Tzu inclusion. At this point, I would say Google's only weakness is Apple's strength. Those that can leverage the later's strength, I suspect, will be part of winning (or on par) competitive strategy, indoor and/or outdoors! I love your Sun Tzu inclusion. At this point, I would say Google’s only weakness is Apple’s strength. Those that can leverage the later’s strength, I suspect, will be part of winning (or on par) competitive strategy, indoor and/or outdoors!

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