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	<title>Comments on: Location Based Social Networks – Building a Framework of Best Practices for Appropriate Business Models that Makes Money</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/</link>
	<description>Transforming LBS Location Based Information into Money - by Claudio Schapsis</description>
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		<title>By: pichiboochi</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-2585</link>
		<dc:creator>pichiboochi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-2585</guid>
		<description>nice blog!! kip up the good work. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice blog!! kip up the good work. <img src='http://bdnooz.com/lbs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: language translation software</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>language translation software</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-2497</guid>
		<description>You have a great blog here and it is Nice to read some well written posts that have some relevancy...keep up the good work ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a great blog here and it is Nice to read some well written posts that have some relevancy&#8230;keep up the good work <img src='http://bdnooz.com/lbs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Claudio Schapsis</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1385</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudio Schapsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-1385</guid>
		<description>Hi John. Thanks for your comments. Here is a new post. Hope you like it.
Regards,
Claudio</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John. Thanks for your comments. Here is a new post. Hope you like it.<br />
Regards,<br />
Claudio</p>
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		<title>By: John Taylor</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>John Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-1250</guid>
		<description>What an excellent blog, I&#039;ve added your feed to my RSS reader. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an excellent blog, I&#8217;ve added your feed to my RSS reader. <img src='http://bdnooz.com/lbs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Schorsch</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Schorsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-176</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-170&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@felix&lt;/a&gt; 

Hey Felix,

what are you devlopping there? I didnt quire understand? :-)
So what is the product from a customers point of view?
Preselas Embed is of course always a key success factor, so if you achieve to have this, then the hardest step is already done.
But. LBS without GPS? Personally i dont believe in products based on cell-id / triangulation, as it is not accurate enough. Sometimes the error even in big cities is just too high (500 meters often happened too me in the city centre of berlin) - In rural areas, sometimes even 5 km ..
But maybe this is different in other networks/countries ? I only tried all gemrna operators with different handsets in different areas. Result was always the same. 50 meter to 500 meter inner city accuracy. For all business models in my drawer - not enough.

Cheers,
Schorsch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-170" rel="nofollow">@felix</a> </p>
<p>Hey Felix,</p>
<p>what are you devlopping there? I didnt quire understand? <img src='http://bdnooz.com/lbs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
So what is the product from a customers point of view?<br />
Preselas Embed is of course always a key success factor, so if you achieve to have this, then the hardest step is already done.<br />
But. LBS without GPS? Personally i dont believe in products based on cell-id / triangulation, as it is not accurate enough. Sometimes the error even in big cities is just too high (500 meters often happened too me in the city centre of berlin) &#8211; In rural areas, sometimes even 5 km ..<br />
But maybe this is different in other networks/countries ? I only tried all gemrna operators with different handsets in different areas. Result was always the same. 50 meter to 500 meter inner city accuracy. For all business models in my drawer &#8211; not enough.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Schorsch</p>
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		<title>By: Jeroen van Bemmel</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeroen van Bemmel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-171</guid>
		<description>More and more companies find that you cannot make sustainable money based on purely online services. It&#039;s too easy to copy, and advertising depends on attention value which erodes with every new site/page that is placed online. You simply cannot compete against the crowd.

Therefore, there needs to be a link to the physical world in the model. Location information is one such link. Devices are another example. For a business model based on location information to work, you need to own/control the supply of location information for a large community of users. Mobile operators are in a good position. GPS works for niche applications, but devices that are open result in competition amongst applications on the handset - again only software, too easy to copy or replace.

A working business model / eco-system for LBS can be built based on cell-id. However, for most consumer applications, you will need to bring together all mobile operators in a given region or country, which is a challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More and more companies find that you cannot make sustainable money based on purely online services. It&#8217;s too easy to copy, and advertising depends on attention value which erodes with every new site/page that is placed online. You simply cannot compete against the crowd.</p>
<p>Therefore, there needs to be a link to the physical world in the model. Location information is one such link. Devices are another example. For a business model based on location information to work, you need to own/control the supply of location information for a large community of users. Mobile operators are in a good position. GPS works for niche applications, but devices that are open result in competition amongst applications on the handset &#8211; again only software, too easy to copy or replace.</p>
<p>A working business model / eco-system for LBS can be built based on cell-id. However, for most consumer applications, you will need to bring together all mobile operators in a given region or country, which is a challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: felix</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>felix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-170</guid>
		<description>in 2003, i trialled LBS [telco-based] in the small red dot called Singapore. many lessons learnt. last year, we tested SIP services with free VoIP calls overseas. more lessons learnt. this year, we are running WAP-based [non telco] ad-CMS self-serve trials, [plus telco-based content services via HSDPA/3G]. If all goes well, next year, we&#039;ll be deploying a mix of SaaS on both platforms [BB and HSDPA/3G]. 

we&#039;ll need a thin client on the device but they will be embedded pre-sales[already in the device] and only requires activation after free trial. it is a light plug-in to the standard browser for non-telco services, and SMS-enabled [Asia is very SMS savvy]. 

i believe the platform is self-sufficient for profitability, and allows anyone to use without a learning curve of more than 5 mins [simple multi-language UI] - we&#039;ll use traditional media to &quot;teach&quot; this during free trials - advertisers and service providers will all try this for free for 3 months. any retailer with a registered business gets an m-site for free [being negotiated with authorities] but they must accept our POS unit which talks to any device [iphone/wm/handset] by bluetooth.

if all goes well, advertising will NOT be the main revenue, but since it is fully automated, there will be no burn from there. 

GPS is not required. 2.5G handsets will run without a client. 3G/GPRS/HSDPA device data charges are fixed as the UI will only issue a 1k data request = US1cent per request, which is borne by retailer or advertiser or service provider. privacy issues all taken care of by whitelist of subscribers, blacklist/ban of abusers [US$30k penalty].

business model is scaleable. we see no boundaries nor borders. only perhaps one: the ego of telcos. 

i will update when i can, as we go about rollout to live. 

maybe there IS a flicker of hope in the sky for LBSN still :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in 2003, i trialled LBS [telco-based] in the small red dot called Singapore. many lessons learnt. last year, we tested SIP services with free VoIP calls overseas. more lessons learnt. this year, we are running WAP-based [non telco] ad-CMS self-serve trials, [plus telco-based content services via HSDPA/3G]. If all goes well, next year, we&#8217;ll be deploying a mix of SaaS on both platforms [BB and HSDPA/3G]. </p>
<p>we&#8217;ll need a thin client on the device but they will be embedded pre-sales[already in the device] and only requires activation after free trial. it is a light plug-in to the standard browser for non-telco services, and SMS-enabled [Asia is very SMS savvy]. </p>
<p>i believe the platform is self-sufficient for profitability, and allows anyone to use without a learning curve of more than 5 mins [simple multi-language UI] &#8211; we&#8217;ll use traditional media to &#8220;teach&#8221; this during free trials &#8211; advertisers and service providers will all try this for free for 3 months. any retailer with a registered business gets an m-site for free [being negotiated with authorities] but they must accept our POS unit which talks to any device [iphone/wm/handset] by bluetooth.</p>
<p>if all goes well, advertising will NOT be the main revenue, but since it is fully automated, there will be no burn from there. </p>
<p>GPS is not required. 2.5G handsets will run without a client. 3G/GPRS/HSDPA device data charges are fixed as the UI will only issue a 1k data request = US1cent per request, which is borne by retailer or advertiser or service provider. privacy issues all taken care of by whitelist of subscribers, blacklist/ban of abusers [US$30k penalty].</p>
<p>business model is scaleable. we see no boundaries nor borders. only perhaps one: the ego of telcos. </p>
<p>i will update when i can, as we go about rollout to live. </p>
<p>maybe there IS a flicker of hope in the sky for LBSN still <img src='http://bdnooz.com/lbs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Schorsch</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Schorsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Guys ...
Lets just wait another 1 or 2 years. The reason why none of those 1000 LBSN has yet taken off is simple: SOCIAL networks demand a high penetration of capable devices within the target group - high means at least 50%. This is NOT the case today with the average mobile device out there. Or: It definetely is a pain in the ass to use most LBSN without an iphone (even bb or windows mobile is uncomfortable). What is more: GPS is a must. Triangulation or manual &quot;set my place&quot; failed (absolutely understandable).
We will see alot of those young companies fade away in the next 2 years.
On the other hand, i am absolutely sure, that one day there WILL be a shiny star, that makes money on the social networking sky - and it will be mobile and location based.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys &#8230;<br />
Lets just wait another 1 or 2 years. The reason why none of those 1000 LBSN has yet taken off is simple: SOCIAL networks demand a high penetration of capable devices within the target group &#8211; high means at least 50%. This is NOT the case today with the average mobile device out there. Or: It definetely is a pain in the ass to use most LBSN without an iphone (even bb or windows mobile is uncomfortable). What is more: GPS is a must. Triangulation or manual &#8220;set my place&#8221; failed (absolutely understandable).<br />
We will see alot of those young companies fade away in the next 2 years.<br />
On the other hand, i am absolutely sure, that one day there WILL be a shiny star, that makes money on the social networking sky &#8211; and it will be mobile and location based.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Harris</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-167</guid>
		<description>The internet provides almost unlimited competition.  No matter how good, or valuable your proposition, if there&#039;s someone else willing to come along and offer a service for free (even if only temporary until they run out of cash) then this makes it hard to justify charging your customers.

Creating switching costs for your customers is one solution, but what about trying to generate money for the service from other sources?  

Advertising is the obvious one, Google still makes the majority of their revenues not from the users of the service but from the advertisers.  Facebook creates even more value for their advertisers through their profiling whilst still offering free access. location based social networks could possibly offer even more value to the advertiser... 

Or maybe there are other, even more innovative ways to make money...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The internet provides almost unlimited competition.  No matter how good, or valuable your proposition, if there&#8217;s someone else willing to come along and offer a service for free (even if only temporary until they run out of cash) then this makes it hard to justify charging your customers.</p>
<p>Creating switching costs for your customers is one solution, but what about trying to generate money for the service from other sources?  </p>
<p>Advertising is the obvious one, Google still makes the majority of their revenues not from the users of the service but from the advertisers.  Facebook creates even more value for their advertisers through their profiling whilst still offering free access. location based social networks could possibly offer even more value to the advertiser&#8230; </p>
<p>Or maybe there are other, even more innovative ways to make money&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: L. Howell</title>
		<link>http://bdnooz.com/2009/01/25/location-based-social-networks-%e2%80%93-building-a-framework-of-best-practices-for-appropriate-business-models-that-makes-money/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>L. Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bdnooz.com/?p=1346#comment-166</guid>
		<description>Ahh, real insights seem to be in short supply these days.  Perhaps it&#039;s because it does not fit within 140 characters on Twitter or it takes too long to &quot;think&quot; about something relevant and useful to say.  Since I can go on for more than 140 characters, I will.  Moreover, I actually have something juicy and pertinent to share.

I was reading an article just the other day at  http://tinyurl.com/csbeg7 there was this long discussion about how many downloads of this, and iPhone is better than Android that and people were complaining about not making any money.  The link shares my insight, scroll down, and look for L. Howell to see my comments.

Nonetheless, I believe that people are scared to make money.  Here&#039;s what I mean, once the individual steps back and someone says, what you are doing or have developed is fun, cool and convenient, most of my posse and business network doesn&#039;t really use this service for it to be of value.  Therefore, free is a very good price for this application or service.  Now, on the other hand, what if you developed something that a group of divorced fathers who get their kids every other weekend could use?  On the other hand, what about the church group that wants to get the word out about their fundraiser for hurricane victims?

Most of what we see is, well, more of the same.  Find a cool restaurant, and let me friend know I have arrived.  Or, track the whereabouts of my colleagues when I am at baggage claim.  Frankly, who cares--really?  Now funding this stuff is interesting to me and the thought process that takes place on what get&#039;s funding and what does not make the cut.

What also is required is the willingness to &quot;look outside&quot; ones circle and look at ailing industries right now.  One must ask the question, where could your service be relevant, valuable and worth paying for?  This X$%&amp;@### will scare the crap out of you, and you will likely become depressed and say to your girlfriend, &quot;I think I will do something else&quot;.  Facing this fear is key and once you do, sky is the limit.  Unfortunately, much of the technology is readily available and with a few thousand bucks, you can get something put together.  However, getting out of one&#039;s comfort zone and talking to established business people and regular customers who do NOT own a BB or iPhone is where you must spend your time.  It&#039;s like what Tiger Woods does every day--practice, practice and more practice.

I did some informal research, just asking people in my band of Twitter followers if they would pay to use Twitter.  Some said, &quot;hell no&quot; but many said they would.  The amount ranges between $2.50 per month to $10.00 per month.  Of course, where Twitter failed, is while they ask the question, &quot;what are you doing?&quot; they did not ask the question, &quot;how will we charge and get paid for our services?&quot;  If you want the top five business models and industry applications to consider for your application, it will cost you though.  You can hit me on Twitter if you&#039;d like to know what they are or email me at info@goseedo.net

I hope this was of value to the author and the community of readers out there.  Look forward to seeing the other components in the framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, real insights seem to be in short supply these days.  Perhaps it&#8217;s because it does not fit within 140 characters on Twitter or it takes too long to &#8220;think&#8221; about something relevant and useful to say.  Since I can go on for more than 140 characters, I will.  Moreover, I actually have something juicy and pertinent to share.</p>
<p>I was reading an article just the other day at  <a href="http://tinyurl.com/csbeg7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/csbeg7</a> there was this long discussion about how many downloads of this, and iPhone is better than Android that and people were complaining about not making any money.  The link shares my insight, scroll down, and look for L. Howell to see my comments.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I believe that people are scared to make money.  Here&#8217;s what I mean, once the individual steps back and someone says, what you are doing or have developed is fun, cool and convenient, most of my posse and business network doesn&#8217;t really use this service for it to be of value.  Therefore, free is a very good price for this application or service.  Now, on the other hand, what if you developed something that a group of divorced fathers who get their kids every other weekend could use?  On the other hand, what about the church group that wants to get the word out about their fundraiser for hurricane victims?</p>
<p>Most of what we see is, well, more of the same.  Find a cool restaurant, and let me friend know I have arrived.  Or, track the whereabouts of my colleagues when I am at baggage claim.  Frankly, who cares&#8211;really?  Now funding this stuff is interesting to me and the thought process that takes place on what get&#8217;s funding and what does not make the cut.</p>
<p>What also is required is the willingness to &#8220;look outside&#8221; ones circle and look at ailing industries right now.  One must ask the question, where could your service be relevant, valuable and worth paying for?  This X$%&amp;@### will scare the crap out of you, and you will likely become depressed and say to your girlfriend, &#8220;I think I will do something else&#8221;.  Facing this fear is key and once you do, sky is the limit.  Unfortunately, much of the technology is readily available and with a few thousand bucks, you can get something put together.  However, getting out of one&#8217;s comfort zone and talking to established business people and regular customers who do NOT own a BB or iPhone is where you must spend your time.  It&#8217;s like what Tiger Woods does every day&#8211;practice, practice and more practice.</p>
<p>I did some informal research, just asking people in my band of Twitter followers if they would pay to use Twitter.  Some said, &#8220;hell no&#8221; but many said they would.  The amount ranges between $2.50 per month to $10.00 per month.  Of course, where Twitter failed, is while they ask the question, &#8220;what are you doing?&#8221; they did not ask the question, &#8220;how will we charge and get paid for our services?&#8221;  If you want the top five business models and industry applications to consider for your application, it will cost you though.  You can hit me on Twitter if you&#8217;d like to know what they are or email me at <a href="mailto:info@goseedo.net">info@goseedo.net</a></p>
<p>I hope this was of value to the author and the community of readers out there.  Look forward to seeing the other components in the framework.</p>
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